Author Topic: off idle stumble  (Read 7051 times)

Offline 67808

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off idle stumble
« on: June 14, 2013, 07:56:10 AM »
I have a Q jet,17084280,R4-M4ME, 1984 Camaro Z-28, 5.0 L, 700R4, completely stock engine/carburetor internals and setup with the exception of EGR removal. Just a cruiser. I have used this setup for years and always lived with a minor off idle stumble. I decided to try to do something about it ,so I ordered a kit and Cliff's book. Everything went according to plan, the only mods being a new float, opening the idle screw mixture holes up as per recommendations because, it was said that these carbs ALWAYS run lean, and putting an Allen head screw for external adjustment of the APT , APT was 2 turns out stock.
 Upon doing the tuning, everything was normal,vacuum19-20", steady needle, indicating engine internals are OK, starts good ,idles 750-800 RPM, idle screws at 2 turns out, electric choke still has the rivets in the adjuster from factory, but now I have a MAJOR stumble off idle when cold. When the engine warms, choke comes off as normal, the stumble is marginally better but still significant. If I try to 'push' the throttle through the stumble, it will do a variety of things..... puff back through the carb with quick advancement of the throttle, the engine actually quit running one time, but more times than not it will stumble, stumble, then pick up and run  properly as you get moving. As the engine gets warmer , the stumble gets less pronounced but is definitely still there. when decelerating the engine lugs in the higher gear and then clears when the downshift occurs.
 I am unsure if it is a lean or rich problem, but, am assuming it is a rich condition due to the fact that the only change is opening the idle air screw passages.
 I have; adjusted the idle air screws to completely closed, adjusted the APT out to 3 turns, then adjusted the APT in to 1.5 turns without effect and thought long and hard. Also, the secondary air valves only start to crack open when the throttle is mashed and held open. I need some outside help, any suggestions for someone?
Thanks, for your consideration, Dale.


Offline 429bbf

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Re: off idle stumble
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2013, 11:33:32 AM »
808 my wifes car had a real similar problem.1981 corvette 19,000 miles. i blamed the carb got a kit from cliff rebuilt it and problem got worse. ended up being flat cam lobe. car ran great , had a stumble like you say, had good vacumn, but when you laid it on the floor and pulled it hard you could here it popping through the carb.fwiw

Offline raguza123

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Re: off idle stumble
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2013, 03:46:51 PM »
Try this for an off idle stumble, by Lars Grimsrud He wrote a couple of articles about tuning Q jets
Tech Tip #3
How can you tell if an off-idle stumble is caused by a lean or a rich condition?
A carb running rich, as well as a carb running lean, can cause an off-idle stumble or hesitation upon acceleration. To narrow it down,
tap the roll pin out of the accelerator pump lever by using a small pin punch or a small finish nail. I actually use a small, broken drill
bit that’s just the right size. Using a hammer, gently tap the roll pin in towards the choke air horn wall. Don’t jam the pin right up
against the wall: Leave just a little bit of a gap so you can get a screwdriver blade in between the wall and the pin to pry it back again.
With the pin tapped out, remove the accelerator pump lever. I like to do this with the engine running so I won’t have any trouble
starting the engine without the accelerator pump. Now, rev the engine a little with the throttle. Notice if the engine seems quicker and
more responsive, or if the hesitation & stumble is worse. If the engine actually feels more responsive with the accelerator pump
disconnected, you have a rich condition. If the hesitation is worse than before, you have a lean condition. If there is no change
whatsoever, you have a non-functional accelerator pump.
To verify a suspected lean condition after this test, simply hold your cupped hand lightly over the choke air horn area with the engine
running at idle, restricting the air flow. If the idle speed and idle quality momentarily increases, you have a verified lean condition.
You need to select a jet/rod combination that will give you a little more Cruise Metering Area. Make these changes in less than 10%
increments using the Figures provided in this paper.
Tech Tip

Offline 67808

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Re: off idle stumble
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2013, 06:26:20 AM »
OK, I figured out the problem.... I kept on playing with the APT, richer, richer, made it work great with 4 turns out. If anyone is re building a Qjet, please take the time to install the plug so you can adjust the APT externally, great suggestions worked for me. thanks, Cliff.

Offline Cliff Ruggles

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Re: off idle stumble
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2013, 04:10:56 AM »
Good news!

A common problem we see here with just about every carb that comes in here with similar problems is bent hanger arms.  The hanger arms MUST be exactly even for the APT system to work correctly.

They can get bent installing the top gasket over them, or when the power piston is removed, etc....Cliff